The parallells with what we are trying to do here are remarkable, although we are a long way behind. There are only remnant trees from commercial fruit orchards of the late 19th century in our district, some of which are Australian varieties. We hope to eventually re-commercialised them on a small scale.

The lack of diversity in our apple stock is concerning. The industrilialization of fruit leaves us with few varieties much like the row crops (hybrid and gmo soybeans and corn) planted in the Midwest. I pledge to plant more heirloom apple varieties next spring.

In the UK, the National Trust (a heritage and natural environment chairty) has just announced it's making a pot of funding available to look at old orchards and revive the forgotten varieties. We also have the National Fruit Collection at Brogdale, in Kent, which is a living museum of apples, but that's seeking funding and a new home. I love the title 'Forgotten Fruits' though - think we may borrow that in future!

great to hear that networking going on, michael. i work at irish seedsaver assoc ( www.irishseedsavers.ie) u can see on our site the work we are doing with over 200 varieties of apple trees growing where it was said none would grow. organically maintained and now starting to produce lots of apples, the 20 acres keep the crew busy. the standout tree for me is Mrs Perry an incredible dual purpose apple. we also have an orchard of self rooting varieties which take from hardwood cuttings. called pitchers coz u pitch them and they take, we are starting to see fruit (takes 10 years plus to fruit) on them. disease resistance is better than grafted trees. dave

Once again, I know this is an old post but I think these own root trees are a great idea for holistic management, besides the long wait for fruit.

At the nursery and orchard here (We sell organic scionwood as well as the trees and apples) we have 320 cultivars and counting. Fedco is another good source of wholesome stock and wood. The newer varieties are well worth growing, but there simply is not the variety in the tastes, textures, tree forms, and..stories. These apples are about apples, but they are also about cultures. Some may have been enjoyed by Roman generals, and some eaten by your great, great grandmother in a seaside swedish village. These things cannot be remade in a breeding program by tossing genes around (no offense to them). In a sense, the decision to plant an heirloom may have less to do with sustenance that with more nuanced part of life. You might draw a diagram when you lay out your rafters, and then you can paint a watercolor. Planting a tree can be a practical undertaking, but it can also be a work of art.
Planting non-patented, non-trademarked trees and seeds is also an exercise in independence. You can rest assured, at least for now you aren't going to get into trouble swapping scions with friends if that is a 200 year old variety. Every year, the mess gets messier with regard to human beings who feel they have every right to own life forms without restraint. We all understand work should be rewarded, university researches and programs included, but there are more and more cases of those who are stepping over the line in proprietory issues. Until this is all ironed out you could do worse than to seek another option.

Comment on the own rooted fruit trees. We started a bit of this via nurse grafting and layering methods, but we are too far out to give a response. It is a good idea if there is th possibilty of lossing the top of a tree when young, through deer browsing or weather damage. What would be a great idea is if folks would all agree to get back to us on experiments they have made and point us all to some good data out there. The issue is that we have alot of info on varieties, which can get as tedious as Beach's comments on bud pubescence, or GRIN's phenotypic descriptions. We have pretty much zilch on the behavior of root systems for these thousands of cultivars. So, it is a great idea, at least for a lot of varieties, but we all need to do some work before we go and put in an orchard full of these boys.

There has been a lot of research in the UK and other parts of Europe in regards to these own root trees. Hugh Erman is theleading expert on the own root concept. He has the most research experience, and has bred many of his own varieties. There is little online of his documents and studies but I'm sure more of his research could be obtained. I especially like how he does trials of own root next to modern grafted stock and compares the result. Certain varietal characteristics are very important when planting a tree like this. However, If we apply our Apple know-how, and our knowledge of controlling a vigorous tree to induce earlier cropping a modest but meaningful plantimg of own root trees is feasible. Own root is especially exciting for the nursuryman like you, adding even more natural resistance to orchard woes. Here is a link to a quick run down of own root: http://www.orangepippin.com/articles/own-roots

Dave, Hugh indeed is the man in the know, and I remember reading the article on Cox O.P. a little while back. I could not find much in print, however on much more than a handful of cultivars. Mentioned are the vigor, etc of some trees (ie the characteristics of those varieties) but not info on the root structure and other root characteristics which may be quite important. Apparently Hugh's research trees have been destroyed due to budget cuts in the UK. Cool Temperate Plants is engaging in a study, which is mentioned on their website. We might be again reminded about the danger of leaving all research up to tax supported entities, always susceptible to decline (I won't get into influence).
Again, i really like the idea, but being a nurseryman I have to be sure of those root systems, because it ultimately means selling those trees and being able to stand behind them. How cold hardy are the roots or crown, how brittle are the roots, can they take a damp spot, resistance to wooly aphid, etc. Also, own rooters will have to begin as a project for people like us who want to experiment, and for those who want to put them on the homestead. Commercial availability for 2000 tree orchards on own root is going to be along way away. This is because merit is only part of the story, the other is production. The REAL reason folks began grafting trees wasn't just to control size or deal with a particular soil condition, it was because reproducing malus via cuttings is a pain in rear end. Grafting is a breeze.